Thursday, April 26, 2007

je ne quitte pas tn-blogs ;-)

Je ne m’associe pas à TunisianDoctor ni à TunisiaSports (sauf s'il plaisante) et je demande à Houssein de ne pas m’effacer de la liste de tn-blogs. Pour les mêmes raisons qu’il viennent de citer :-))))

Pour ceux qui ne sont pas au courant, un agrégateur n'est pas un parti politique ou une association. C'est juste un agrégateur. Je me demande qu'est ce qui se passerait si gayTunisia mets sur son site un lien vers TunisienDoctor or TunisiaSports, quelle serait leur réactions dans ce cas? Est ce qu'ils essaieront de les attaquer en justice pour qu'ils enlèvent ces liens ;-) ? La Tunisphére devient de plus en plus intéressante, Bravo Houssein et Merci pour cet acquis national.Pardonnez-moi, mais après avoir vécu 12 ans à San Francisco, je crois que je commence à attraper le virus de la tolérance 3afana wa 3afakom allah :-)))

Voici une image qui lie les gays ou "queers" de San Francisco au droit de retour des palestiniens a leur pays. Peut être que TunisianDoctor qui est si sensible au même droit (d’après ses posts) doit maintenant reconsidérer son support pour la même cause car il y a des gays qui supportent celles-ci, j’espère avoir sa réponse!!!!



168 comments:

SNAWSI said...

Samsoum, mets les choses ds leur propre cadre: ce qui se passe à san francisco ne se passe pas à Tunis.
La tunisie est un pays MUSULMAN.
Et tu parles d'acquis NATIONAL!!! makina fech na3mlouh l'acquis national ?!

Bref, ma constatation est qu'il y a trop d'hypocrisie: on jeune le Ramadhan, fête l'Aid, on condamme l'adultère ( ziné), on condamme "sabb al jalela " mais on se veut moderne et on accepte les gays ?! ça colle pas.

Et btw, même aux USA, les gays ne sont pas accepté partout. Le seul Etat libéral qui a " normalisé/ banalisé " ce phénomène est la Californie. Et le marriage des gays est encore sujet à des débats houleux!

Ah, pour le support des gays à la cause palestinienne, behi barakallahou fihom, ama les vrais militants ne se promènenet pas ds les rues d'une ville à l'autre bout du monde avec qq banderoles ( comme si c leur gay pride parade)!

MetallicNaddou said...

c'est lamentable ! j'avais pas vu ça passer et c'est tant mieux, vu mon état en ce moment j'ai pas envie de lire des bêtises de ce genre.
en tout cas bravo samsoum, moi aussi je suis atteinte du même virus et fière de l'être

Sami III said...

personnellement je soutien la cause palestinienne
mais je suis homophobe, et si dans un manifestation pour la palestine il fallait me mélanger avec des pédés, je la quitterais, mouch lézém ménha, je la ferais un autre jour, même tout seul (comme un fou à la rue)
El blassa illi yo9rboulha ynajjsouha, wéna a3sabi ma tét7ammalch él mouyou3a...

Mais je décourage le fait que les gens Normaux quittent tn-blogs car ça risque de devenir th-pédés

khanouff said...

Je préfère une société de gays et lesbiens qui s’assument, qu’une société qui se dit musulmane, fait son jeûne de ramadan, fête son aïd et perpétue dans l’ombre des pratiques de pédophilies et autres déviations sexuelles, car c’est ça les vraies déviations, mais que quelqu’un affiche une préférence autres qu’hétéro, c’est son affaire personnel et basta…et puis les tunisiens s’ils sont en majorité musulmans il ne reste pas moins qu’ils y aussi des tunisiens juifs, chrétiens et autre athées qui n’ont besoins ni de donneurs de leçons à quatre sous ni de prédicateurs à la noix…Mes parents ont vécu dans un village côtier ou toutes les communautés se côtoyées au point que les musulmans se mettaient sur leur 31 le jour des fêtes catholiques célébrais par leurs voisins de palier maltais, et vice versa le jour de l’aïd essghir des musulmans…
Une société devenant de plus en plus intolérantes n’engendre que des fanatiques et des poseurs de bombes…

Tunisie Gay said...

Bonjour Samsoum,

Après la réaction virulante de Tunisian Doctor, nous sommes heureux de voir qu'il y a quand même des voix tunisiennes tolerantes et ouvertes sur les autres...

Pour tous ceux qui ont des préjugés à propos du blog, je vous invite à nous connaitre plus, à vous ouvrir, à lire et peut être que vous changerez d'avis à notre propos...

Vive la tolerance !

de passage said...

Bon ben nos chemins doivent se séparer alors puisque nous sommes incomptibles . C'est donc le début de la guerre civile entre les pro-pd et les anti . Je pense que ce ne serait pas une mauvaise idée que de faire deux listes de blogs, ça limitera l'échange d'idée mais bon l'échange à déjà eu lieu et tout le monde est resté sur ses positions . On est complètement différent est on a pas l'intention de changer, Vos choix vous mènent sur une pente dangereuse, c'est ce que je crois et vous allez chuter grave .

Mira said...

je lis souvent , mais je commente rarement ici.
et la je dis clap clap, bravo!
y en a marre des intolérants... depuis deux jours j'hallucine devant la stupidité des commentaires sur le blog de kassus et autres.
vraiment dommage!

soulef said...

Vraiment choquée par l'intolérance de quelques uns , la sexualité comme la religion est trés personnelle ,chacun fait ce qui lui plait et OUVERTEMENT car apparement on veut enterrer les homosexuels , on sait qu'il y en a mais on préfere pas en entendre parler alors elle est où la vraie dérive ???!!!

ancien combattant said...

Qu'est-ce qu'un Gay ou une Lesbienne sinon UN ETRE HUMAIN qui a une orientation sexuelle différente de la norme.

Au nom de quoi discriminer les êtres humains au prétexte qu'ils ont une pratique sexuelle différente de la vôtre ?

Votre haine de l'homosexualité est en définitive votre haine de la DIFFERENCE.

Au-delà des homosexuel(le)s pour le dénigrement desquels vous dépensez une énergie d'une violence inouïe, vos réactions, vos écrits traduisent une horreur de ce qui diffère du MOULE dans lequel vous coulez. Car la différence est une menace pour votre conformisme, elle le remet en question, elle le pourfend, elle l'érode.

La haine de la différence a une seule source : L'IGNORANCE. Et la vôtre (ignorance) est monumentale, elle n'a pas de limites.

Dans ce pays, avant d'être des musulmans nous sommes des CITOYENS quelque soient nos orientations politiques, religieuses, sexuelles ou autres. Et dans une république, TOUS LES CITOYENS sont EGAUX en DROITS.

Mais tout cela vous être trop intelligents (ou ignorants) pour le savoir.

SNAWSI said...

Dans toute société d'humains,la religion a toujours existé et gouverné bien avant la citoyenneté.

Anonymous said...

malheuresement d'ailleurs

ismael said...

snawsi excuse-moi mais c'est argument est vraiment la goutte de connerie qui fait déborder le verre de bêtise : si on doit se conformer à ce qui vient avant, et bien dans ce cas, je te ferais remarquer, qu'avant la citoyenneté et la religion, il y a l'homosexualité, alors, c'est parce qu'il y a eu des homosexuels avant qu'il y ait eu des religieux et des citoyens, on devrait tous être des homosexuels, habillés de peaux de bêtes, mangeant de la viande cru...ah non même pas, on devrait être des singes... C'est quoi ce dogme ridicule de toujours dire, ce qui vient avant fait office de loi, je te signale que le judaisme est la première religion monothéiste et l'islam la dernière, si tu es un tant soit peu cohérent avec ce que tu profère, tu devrais te convertir de suite...

samsoum said...

Je rappelle que les gays et lesbians existaient avant l'Islam et pendant l'islam et que dans notre pays, il y en a toujours eu et que les mépriser et se comporter comme s'il n'avaient jamais exister est la vrai hypocrisie.

Je suis contre toute forme de discrimination qu'elle soit contre les gay ou fondamentaliste.Tout blogger a mon support pour dire ce qu'il veut et pour exister. Je m'en fous de ce qu'il fait dans sa chambre la nuit, qu'il prie ou qu'il baise.

Et puis qui a dit qu'il faut qu'on choisisse entre jeuner le Ramadan et supporter les gay?? Mais c'est grave ca!!

Aziz said...

snawsi: La Tunisie appartient a ces enfants et je dois encore une fois me repeter mais ces arguments qui reviennent prouve une cghose ; On est pas capable de comprendre notre propre identite !! la Tunisie ne se base pas sur des ideaux religieux tu peux etre Juifs athe Tunisien tu peux etre tunisien noir et musulams, tu peux etre Un fessi wella un Alexandro et etre tout aussi tunisien que moi ..

Alors on se retrouve dans un debat tres simpliste ; Une vision reductrice de notre pays qui se base sur la religion ou une Republique dont la religion officielle est l'Islam MAIS QUI GARANTIT A TOUS LES ENFANTS DE LA REPUBLIQUE LE DROIT INALIENABLEQU"EST LA LIBERTE. decidement les tunisien ne sabvent plus qu'on vit sous une Republique !!!

Bilel said...

Il était une fois la communication...

passager said...

Le problème des pd, c'est qu'il nous coûte cher et c'est un obstacle au développement . Enfin quoi, ces gens là utilisent déjà deux capotes, une pour ne pas choper le sida et une pour ne pas salir les draps . Ben oui ils sont deux et chacun a son instrument de travail . Quand ils ont fini leur conneries de dégénérés, ils ont dépensés le double d'énergie pour une production zéro . C'est comme une usine qui tourne pour rien . Il produisent des gaz polluants l'atmosphère . Ils consomment un excès d'oxygène pour arriver a leurs fins et tout ça fel 7oua, un tir à blanc à chaque coup . Donc consommer pour dépenser de l'énergie pour un résultat qui sera toujours négatif , c'est une insulte a l'humain et a la création dans son ensemble . Je ne parle pas des maladies et tout les désagréements qui accompagnent ces relations anormales . J'entre pas dans les considérations réligieuse, parce que là il est clair que la destruction de la ville de loth (as) est là pour nous rappeler ce qui arrivera à ceux qui espérent légaliser ce genre de déviance . Peut-être que certains ont des intérêts financiers dans ce genre d'affaire comme par exemple poser un distributeur de préservatif spéciale dans gayland .

psynaj said...

j'ai lu pratiquement tous les articles qui ont soulevé ce point aujourd'hui, et je me suis dite que je ne vais pas commenter aucun, mais voilà j'ai changé d'avis et je vais commenter le tien:
on vit dans un pays, musulmans ou pas ,il faut pas se rappeler de ça à l'occasion, car dans notre société il y a les pires choses qui existent partout dans le monde, mais nous on est un peuple qui suit la philosophie de Candide à savoir tout va pour le mieux dans le meilleur monde, et c'est bien dommage, il ne s'agit pas de banaliser ou normaliser tel ou tel acte, non plus d'accepter ou pas accepter, y a tellement de choses qui passent devant nos yeux et auquelles on ne dit rien, les photos, des videos pornos de jeunes, d'aoàçlescent et d'adultes tunisiens circulent kil batata sur internet, ça c'est normal aussi?
j'ai lu des aberration, qui traitent les gays comme des malades mentaux, d'autres qui veulent les enfermer dans des asiles psychiatriques, mais c'est quoi ce délire, on refuse un blog gay sur un site d'agrégateur, d'autres disent qu'ils vont sortir de tn blog et pq ne pas sortir de la société tunisienne?
qui sera le nouveau hitler dans cette décennie?
prendre l'islam comme justificatif est vraiment abérrant, dieu est la seule personne qui prendra en charge le destin de ces personnes, en attendant continuez votre chemin et laissez le leur, ils ne le croiseront pas!

de passage said...

"Qu'est-ce qu'un Gay ou une Lesbienne sinon UN ETRE HUMAIN qui a une orientation sexuelle différente de la norme.

Au nom de quoi discriminer les êtres humains au prétexte qu'ils ont une pratique sexuelle différente de la vôtre ?"

On pourrait dire la même chose du pédophile qui sauf erreur est lui aussi un être humain avec peut-être une orientation sexuelle différente .
Il trouve son plaisir avec des enfants et bien sûr sans leur consentement ou si c'est fait avec leurs consentement, cela se fait moyennant finance . Et là on a affaire a la prostitution infantile . Vous me direz qu'est ce que ça a voir ? Les homos ont une relation entre adultes consentants . Ok, c'est juste, mais que fait-on avec les pédophiles qui apparemment ne trouvent leur plaisirs que dans la pratique avec des mineurs .
On parlent bien de plaisir n'est-ce pas ? Faut pas me parler d'amour, parce que je n'y crois pas . Les homos trouvent leur plaisirs dans une relation complètement anormale de même que les pédophiles . Dans la deuxième catégorie cela peut se transformer en violence sur mineur .
C'est quoi les prochains plaisirs des gens anormaux dans le futur ?
Qu'est ce que nous réserve le futur de la dépravation humaine ?

Tout ce qui est anormale doit être banni d'une société normale . Tous ces gens là doivent êtres soignés par ce qu'ils sont malades .

Anonymous said...

ethnoloribobologique a dit…
Ce qu'il y a de bien avec les homos c'est qu'ils s'emboitent comme des légos l'un dans l'autre . Ils ne mangent pas de place, 4 chaises pour un meeting à 8 devrait leur suffire .

27 avril 2007 08:16

Aziz said...

A passager : Sous le choc . Je suis completement aberre par tant de conneries deblaterees en moins de 1000 characteres ...

Rien a ajouter a cela .

passager said...

Donc je n'ai aucune chance avec toi et moi qui commençait a avoir des penchants bizarres .
Comment qui faut faire pour te séduire et pour t'exciter faut tripoter quoi ?
Nan mais c'est vrai quoi, je me pose cette question parce qu'il doit bien y avoir des critères de choix . Comment vous faites entre homos, vous regardez quoi ?
C'est incroyable ce que vous pouvez êtres malades .
Réponds moi donc que je saches comment vous fonctionner et parles moi pas d'amour et de sentiments a la con . Faut pas me prendre pour un con, vu les lieux que vous fréquentez pour vous retrouvez, c'est tout sauf de l'amour . Faut peut-être baratiner les naifs qui s'érigent en défenseurs de la veuve et de l'orphelin ou plutôt de la pédarasterie, en leur faisant croire vos conneries . Mais y a des gens qui sont tout sauf naïfs . Vos lieux de prédilections répondent parfaitement à la description que l'on s'en fait, c'est l'enfer de la nuit .

Anonymous said...

A de passage ou passager:

Tu réalises un peu tes conneries? Tu poses des questions, tu les réponds et tu conclut fièrement contrairement a tes réponses. Tu l'as dit: l'homosexualité est une relation CONSENTANTE entre des adultes. La pédophilie et les autres aberrations sont basées sur l'abus d'autrui et doivent être bannies. Etre une grande gueule comme toi ou Snawsi veut aussi dire être borné et peu intelligent.

passager said...

sa7et ya intelligent . Si t'avais un peu d'intelligence tu aurais compris que j'ai abordé la partie plaisir car contrairement a toutes les conneries que l'on vous sert et peut-être que tu fais partie de ceux qui nous les distribue , la partie plaisir est la partie dominante dans une relation homo .
Hors ce que l'on accorde par cette prétendue tolérance, c'est le droit au plaisir . La question est de savoir ya l'intelligent si l'on peut accorder à l'un un plaisir et pas à l'autre . J'ai souligné aussi le fait qu'il y a des relations pédophiles consentantes ou c'est l'enfant qui se livre moyennant finance .
J'ai dit en conclusion que tous ces plaisirs étaient incompatibles avec une société de gens normaus et que par conséqent, il fallait songer à soigner les deux catégories de gens .

Anonymous said...

Tu t'entends toujours pas. Comment une relation avec un mineur est consentante? C'est grave même de le dire!
Comment sais-tu que la relation homo est basée sur le plaisir et pas sur l'amour?

passager said...

Combien de fois devrais je te le répéter , il y a des enfants qui se prostituent de leur plein gré . T'as jamais vu des reportages la-dessus ? Et ben ça existe en afrique en thailande et ailleurs et puis il y a les réseaux qui mettent a disposition de leurs clients des gamins qui n'ont pas le choix .
Quand à ce qui est de la relation homo, t'as qu'a regarder leur lieux de rencontre, c'est tout sauf romantique . Faut arrêter de croire que c'est des histoires d'amour . Lorsqu'ils ont besoin d'un partenaire, ils se rendent dans les lieux destinés spécialement pour les homos . S'ils sont en couple et te paraissent fidèles, c'est parce qu'ils n'ont pas le choix, c'est le parcours du combattant pour eux, lorsqu'ils veulent retrouver un nouveau partenaire et c'est pas pour causer ou par amour qu'ils le cherchent .
Faut arrêter de jouer les naïfs .

Anonymous said...

T'as plus besoin de le répéter. En fait, tu ne comprends pas le mot consentement.
Je pense que la demande de plusieurs homos du droit de mariage est un signe d'amour, mais je ne peux pas vraiment juger.
Sinon, comme ce n'est pas ma préférence sexuelle, ne ne vais jamais sur des sites gay. C'est drole que t'y vas! En fait, d'après les psychanalystes, l'homophobie est aussi le résultat de désirs homosexuels refoulés. Voir le lien de Wikipédia:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobie#Origines_de_l.27homophobie

Massir said...

Bravo Samsoum,
Je ne peux qu'approuver ce que tu dis.

passager said...

je ne vais pas sur les sites bordel mais comment faut-il vous faire comprendre . Pas plus tard que tout à l'heure il y avait sur arte un reportage sur des palestiniens qui parlaient en hébreux(je crois que c'était des palestiniens ou un mélange des deux races) ces gens là faisant partie du monde de la nuit . Ils étaient apparement en quête de client, il se prostituaient en compagnie de travellos . Les lieux en question, c'est les boites de nuit et les bars spécialement destiné a cette catégorie de gens et pas les sites internet, c'est saoulant de devoir toujours se répéter .
Mais remarque t'as peut-être raison, ça doit être vraiment agréable comme relation alors franchement c'est la meilleure ça . Quelqu'un qui s'acharne contre les pd aurait des penchants homos selon le raisonnemnt de certains et refoulés en plus et pourquoi ne pas se laisser aller tiens pendant qu'on y ai ?
C'est ça votre dernière trouvaille pour vous défendre ? Attention ça vient de wikipida, c'est pas de n'importe ou, c'est wikipida .
Barra emchiou edfnou rwa7kom ça vaudra mieux si vous 'avez que cette argument .
En attendant j'éspère que quelqu'un de sensé prendra le contrôle de cette blogosphère et fera le nettoyage necessaire parce qu'il y en a vraiment besoin .
Qu'il nous débarrasse des pd, des lesbiennes, des échangistes, des pétasses, des islamophobes, des pros-sionistes et des traîtres en régles géneral et après on verra bien s'il y encore une histoire de penchant homosexuelle refoulé . Malla tal3a tla3tou be7e .

passager said...

Tiens la cheftaine des islamophobes qui signale sa présence . C'est vrai qu'on ne l'avait pas vu depuis un moment .
Vivement le grand nettoyage qu'on se débarrasse de tout ça et vite .

Anonymous said...

سؤال:
ما هي عقوبة اللواط ، وهل هناك فرق بين الفاعل والمفعول به ؟.

الجواب:

الحمد لله

أولا :

جريمة اللواط من أعظم الجرائم ، وأقبح الذنوب ، وأسوأ الأفعال وقد عاقب الله فاعليها بما لم يعاقب به أمة من الأمم ، وهي تدل على انتكاس الفطرة ، وطمْس البصيرة ، وضعف العقل ، وقلة الديانة ، وهي علامة الخذلان ، وسلم الحرمان ، نسأل الله العفو والعافية .

قال تعالى : ( وَلُوطًا إِذْ قَالَ لِقَوْمِهِ أَتَأْتُونَ الْفَاحِشَةَ مَا سَبَقَكُمْ بِهَا مِنْ أَحَدٍ مِنَ الْعَالَمِينَ . إِنَّكُمْ لَتَأْتُونَ الرِّجَالَ شَهْوَةً مِنْ دُونِ النِّسَاءِ بَلْ أَنْتُمْ قَوْمٌ مُسْرِفُونَ وَمَا كَانَ جَوَابَ قَوْمِهِ إِلا أَنْ قَالُوا أَخْرِجُوهُمْ مِنْ قَرْيَتِكُمْ إِنَّهُمْ أُنَاسٌ يَتَطَهَّرُونَ . فَأَنْجَيْنَاهُ وَأَهْلَهُ إِلا امْرَأَتَهُ كَانَتْ مِنَ الْغَابِرِينَ . وَأَمْطَرْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ مَطَرًا فَانْظُرْ كَيْفَ كَانَ عَاقِبَةُ الْمُجْرِمِينَ ) الأعراف/80- 84 .

وقال سبحانه : ( لَعَمْرُكَ إِنَّهُمْ لَفِي سَكْرَتِهِمْ يَعْمَهُونَ . فَأَخَذَتْهُمُ الصَّيْحَةُ مُشْرِقِينَ . فَجَعَلْنَا عَالِيَهَا سَافِلَهَا وَأَمْطَرْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ حِجَارَةً مِنْ سِجِّيلٍ . إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لآيَاتٍ لِلْمُتَوَسِّمِينَ وَإِنَّهَا لَبِسَبِيلٍ مُقِيمٍ ) الحجر/72- 76 إلى غير ذلك من الآيات .

وروى الترمذي (1456) وأبو داود (4462) وابن ماجه (2561) عَنْ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ رضي الله عنهما قَالَ : قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : ( مَنْ وَجَدْتُمُوهُ يَعْمَلُ عَمَلَ قَوْمِ لُوطٍ فَاقْتُلُوا الْفَاعِلَ وَالْمَفْعُولَ بِهِ ) وصححه الألباني في صحيح الترمذي .

وروى أحمد (2915) عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ رضي الله عنهما أَنَّ نَبِيَّ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ : ( لَعَنَ اللَّهُ مَنْ عَمِلَ عَمَلَ قَوْمِ لُوطٍ ، لَعَنَ اللَّهُ مَنْ عَمِلَ عَمَلَ قَوْمِ لُوطٍ ، ثَلاثًا ) وحسنه شعيب الأرنؤوط في تحقيق المسند .

وقد أجمع الصحابة على قتل اللوطي ، لكن اختلفوا في طريقة قتله ، فمنهم من ذهب إلى أن يحرق بالنار ، وهذا قول علي رضي الله عنه ، وبه أخذ أبو بكر رضي الله عنه ، كما سيأتي . ومنهم قال : يرمى به من أعلى شاهق ، ويتبع بالحجارة ، وهذا قول ابن عباس رضي الله عنه .

ومنهم من قال : يرجم بالحجارة حتى يموت ، وهذا مروي عن علي وابن عباس أيضاً .

ثم اختلف الفقهاء بعد الصحابة ، فمنهم من قال يقتل على أي حال كان ، محصنا أو غير محصن .

ومنهم من قال : بل يعاقب عقوبة الزاني ، فيرجم إن كان محصنا ، ويجلد إن كان غير محصن .

ومنهم من قال : يعزر التعزير البليغ الذي يراه الحاكم .

وقد بسط ابن القيم رحمه الله الكلام على هذه المسألة ، وذكر حجج الفقهاء وناقشها ، وانتصر للقول الأول ، وذلك في كتابه "الجواب الكافي لمن سأل عن الدواء الشافي" والذي وضعه لعلاج هذه الفاحشة المنكرة . ونحن ننقل طرفا من كلامه رحمه الله : قال :

" ولما كانت مفسدة اللواط من أعظم المفاسد ، كانت عقوبته في الدنيا والآخرة من أعظم العقوبات .

وقد اختلف الناس هل هو أغلظ عقوبة من الزنا ، أو الزنا أغلظ عقوبة منه ، أو عقوبتهما سواء ؟ على ثلاثة أقوال :

فذهب أبو بكر الصديق وعلى بن أبي طالب وخالد بن الوليد وعبد الله بن الزبير وعبد الله بن عباس ومالك وإسحق بن راهويه والإمام أحمد في أصح الروايتين عنه والشافعي في أحد قوليه إلى أن عقوبته أغلظ من عقوبة الزنا ، وعقوبته القتل على كل حال ، محصنا كان أو غير محصن .

وذهب الشافعي في ظاهر مذهبه والإمام أحمد في الرواية الثانية عنه إلى أن عقوبته وعقوبة الزاني سواء .

وذهب الإمام أبو حنيفة إلى أن عقوبته دون عقوبة الزاني وهى التعزير ".

إلى أن قال : " قال أصحاب القول الأول وهم جمهور الأمة وحكاه غير واحد إجماعا للصحابة : ليس في المعاصى مفسدة أعظم من مفسدة اللواط وهى تلي مفسدة الكفر وربما كانت أعظم من مفسدة القتل كما سنبينه إن شاء الله تعالى .

قالوا : ولم يبتل الله تعالى بهذه الكبيرة قبل قوم لوط أحدا من العالمين ، وعاقبهم عقوبة لم يعاقب بها أمة غيرهم ، وجمع عليهم أنواعا من العقوبات من الإهلاك ، وقلب ديارهم عليهم ، والخسف بهم ورجمهم بالحجارة من السماء ، وطمس أعينهم ، وعذّبهم وجعل عذابهم مستمرا فنكّل بهم نكالا لم ينكّله بأمة سواهم ، وذلك لعظم مفسدة هذه الجريمة التي تكاد الأرض تميد من جوانبها إذا عُملت عليها ، وتهرب الملائكة إلى أقطار السموات والأرض إذا شاهدوها خشية نزول العذاب على أهلها ، فيصيبهم معهم ، وتعج الأرض إلى ربها تبارك وتعالى وتكاد الجبال تزول عن أماكنها .

وقتل المفعول به خير له من وطئه ، فإنه إذا وطأه الرجل قتله قتلا لا ترجي الحياة معه ، بخلاف قتله فإنه مظلوم شهيد . قالوا : والدليل على هذا ( يعني على أن مفسدة اللواط أشد من مفسدة القتل ) أن الله سبحانه جعل حد القاتل إلى خيرة الولي إن شاء قتل وإن شاء عفى ، وحتم قتل اللوطي حدا كما أجمع عليه أصحاب رسول الله ودلت عليه سنة رسول الله الصريحة التي لا معارض لها ، بل عليها عمل أصحابه وخلفائه الراشدين رضي الله عنهم أجمعين .

وقد ثبت عن خالد بن الوليد أنه وجد في بعض نواحي العرب رجلا ينكح كما تنكح المرأة ، فكتب إلى أبي بكر الصديق رضي الله عنه ، فاستشار أبو بكر الصديق الصحابة رضي الله عنهم ، فكان على بن أبي طالب أشدهم قولا فيه ، فقال : ما فعل هذا إلا أمة من الأمم واحدة وقد علمتم ما فعل الله بها . أرى أن يحرق بالنار ، فكتب أبو بكر إلى خالد فحرقه .

وقال عبد الله بن عباس : ينظر أعلى ما في القرية فيرمى اللوطي منها منكسا ثم يتبع بالحجارة .

وأخذ ابن عباس هذا الحد من عقوبة الله للوطية قوم لوط .

وابن عباس هو الذي روى عن النبي صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : ( من وجدتموه يعمل عمل قوم لوط فاقتلوا الفاعل والمفعول به ) رواه أهل السنن وصححه ابن حبان وغيره ، واحتج الإمام أحمد بهذا الحديث وإسناده على شرط البخاري .

قالوا : وثبت عنه أنه قال : ( لعن الله من عمل عمل قوم لوط ، لعن الله من عمل عمل قوم لوط ، لعن الله من عمل عمل قوم لوط ) ولم يجىء عنه لعنة الزاني ثلاث مرات في حديث واحد ، وقد لعن جماعة من أهل الكبائر ، فلم يتجاوز بهم في اللعن مرة واحدة ، وكرر لعن اللوطية فأكده ثلاث مرات ، وأطبق أصحاب رسول الله على قتله لم يختلف منهم فيه رجلان ، وإنما اختلفت أقوالهم في صفة قتله ، فظن بعض الناس أن ذلك اختلاف منهم فى قتله ، فحكاها مسألة نزاع بين الصحابه ، وهي بينهم مسألة إجماع ، لا مسألة نزاع .

قالوا : ومن تأمل قوله سبحانه : ( ولا تقربوا الزنا إنه كان فاحشة ومقتا وساء سبيلا ) وقوله في اللواط : ( أتأتون الفاحشة ما سبقكم بها من أحد من العالمين ) تبين له تفاوت ما بينهما ، فإنه سبحانه نَكّرَ الفاحشة في الزنا ، أي هو فاحشة من الفواحش ، وعرّفها في اللواط وذلك يفيد أنه جامع لمعاني اسم الفاحشة ، كما تقول : زيد الرجل ، ونعم الرجل زيد ، أي : أتأتون الخصلة التي استقر فحشها عند كل أحد ، فهي لظهور فحشها وكماله غنيّة عن ذكرها ، بحيث لا ينصرف الاسم إلى غيرها …" انتهى من "الجواب الكافي" ص 260- 263

وقال شيخ الإسلام رحمه الله : " وأما اللواط فمن العلماء من يقول : حده كحد الزنا ، وقد قيل دون ذلك . والصحيح الذي اتفقت عليه الصحابة : أن يقتل الاثنان الأعلى والأسفل . سواء كانا محصنين ، أو غير محصنين . فإن أهل السنن رووا عن ابن عباس رضي الله تعالى عنهما ، عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال : ( من وجدتموه يعمل عمل قوم لوط ، فاقتلوا الفاعل والمفعول به ) وروى أبو داود عن ابن عباس رضي الله تعالى عنهما : ( في البكر يوجد على اللواطية ، قال : يرجم ) ويروى عن علي بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه نحو ذلك . ولم تختلف الصحابة في قتله ، ولكن تنوعوا فيه ، فروي عن الصديق رضي الله عنه أنه أمر بتحريقه ، وعن غيره قتله .

وعن بعضهم : أنه يلقى عليه جدار حتى يموت تحت الهدم .

وقيل : يحبسان في أنتن موضع حتى يموتا .

وعن بعضهم : أنه يرفع على أعلى جدار في القرية ، ويرمى منه ، ويتبع بالحجارة ، كما فعل الله بقوم لوط وهذه رواية عن ابن عباس ، والرواية الأخرى قال : يرجم ، وعلى هذا أكثر السلف ، قالوا : لأن الله رجم قوم لوط ، وشرع رجم الزاني تشبيها برجم لوط ، فيرجم الاثنان ، سواء كانا حرين أو مملوكين ، أو كان أحدهما مملوك الآخر ، إذا كانا بالغين ، فإن كان أحدهما غير بالغ عوقب بما دون القتل ، ولا يرجم إلا البالغ " انتهى من "السياسة الشرعية" ص 138.

ثانيا :

المفعول به كالفاعل ، لأنهما اشتركا في الفاحشة ، فكان عقوبتهما القتل كما جاء في الحديث ، لكن يستثنى من ذلك صورتان :

الأولى : من أكره على اللواط بضرب أو تهديد بالقتل ونحوه ، فإنه لا حد عليه .

قال في "شرح منتهى الإرادات" (3/348) : " ولا حد إن أكره ملوط به على اللواط بإلجاءٍ بأن غلبه الواطئ على نفسه أو بتهديد بنحو قتل أو ضرب " انتهى بتصرف

الثانية : إذا كان المفعول به صغيرا لم يبلغ ، فإنه لا يحد ، لكن يؤدب ويعزر بما يردعه عن اقتراف هذه الجريمة ، كما سبق في كلام شيخ الإسلام ابن تيمية .

ونقل ابن قدامة رحمه الله في "المغني" (9/62) أنه لا خلاف بين العلماء في أن الحد لا يُقام على المجنون ولا الصبيّ الذي لم يبلغ .

والله أعلم

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Areas ranging from Sydney, Australia, to the Russian Far East to the Hawaiian islands conducted evacuations and warned residents to be on the lookout for large waves following the 8.8 magnitude earthquake that devastated parts of Chile on Saturday. The Asia-Pacific region waited in suspense for almost 24 hours, the time that scientists predicted it would take shock waves from the powerful earthquake to race across the ocean in the form of massive waves.

But the predicted time of impact came and went, with only waves of up to 10 centimeters reported near Tokyo and of up to 90 centimeters further north along the Japanese coast. The same was true across the region, where officials breathed an almost audible sigh of relief.

“Luckily, these waves are far smaller than the agency’s forecast,” said Kazuaki Ito, director of the Information Institute of Disaster Prevention, a Tokyo-based non-profit group that advises on natural disasters.

The tsunami warning was lifted in Hawaii on late Saturday after waves of about 1.5 meters were sighted, without any apparent damage. Beaches were briefly cleared of swimmers, and tourists were sent to upper floors of hotels. But nations further west left their alerts in place for much of Sunday, even after waves proved small, in case of additional tsunamis triggered by the huge Chilean temblor.

Nations took the warning seriously in a region where raw memories remain of the deadly December 2004 tsunami in the neighboring Indian Ocean that killed nearly 230,000 people in 14 countries.

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I was watching on & off the MSNBC coverage and frankly not impressed with their 'scare' tactic coverage - based on scientific fact and investigation the after-effects would be obvious but hey what's with checking things first these days.... granted the potential for loss of life was there but could news channels act again like news channels - reporting the facts not paranoia & spreading fear.....plus I don't want to hear at the end of it all "Thank God he saved us"....if you believe that surely God caused it in the first place too...

What do you think about all these tsunamis thing?



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